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23 June 2021

Bitcoin is The Only Way Out: The Jack Dorsey Interview

Bitcoin is The Only Way Out: The Jack Dorsey Interview


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What does Bitcoin have anything to do with human rights?

That it’s non-discriminatory, that it’s open and opening for many people around the world who are walled off from transactions, saving, connecting with the world?

So we are now in a position where the increase of technology is going to allow more people to come online and with Bitcoin it doesn’t matter what passport you have, or what nationality you are, or what ethnicity you are, or what you believe in, you can connect to this network?

So when we think about banking the unbanked, what’s your vision for what is most important for helping onboard people into this new system.

And I want to thank you by the way — I appreciate you so much for all the work you do to take away a bunch of the myths that people have in their head and give a strong case for why Bitcoin can be used by everyone — but we don’t need the financial institutions that we have today.

Jay loves Bitcoin, he goes very deep in what he loves, he believes in it, and he also believes in this idea of making sure that if we’re going to create a money for the world, it has to be developed around the world.

How has traveling the world and going to different countries like this opened your eyes to the global impact of Bitcoin that maybe people in Wall Street or in Silicon Valley or in London may not be seeing?

Go to Nigeria for one day and see the struggle that people have to put up with, with their government and with their money.

Today we’ve got maybe — and estimates vary — anywhere from 150 million to 200 million people have used Bitcoin in some way.

I believe we’re going to a billion people by 2025, certainly by the end of the decade.

When you have so many more people on-ramping into this system, we’re probably going to have a situation where fees on the main chain are going to get pretty high in fiat terms?

So can you talk about — for people who like in Nigeria or Sudan who are going to need micropayments, who are going to want to send $5 or $10, can you talk a little bit about your commitment at Square to Lightning, how you understood how Bitcoin will scale in layers perhaps instead of on the main chain, and why you are so committed to Lighting in a time where we are going to get a lot more users.

J: That’s why I’m committed to Lightning, because this is going to be used by more and more people.

My belief in bitcoin is that it’s an amazing asset, but my belief is that the internet needs a native currency, and we need to be able to transact with this every single day.

And that’s why we don’t deal with any other “currencies” or “coins” because we’re so focused on making bitcoin the native currency for the internet.

Bitcoin is about decentralization, and you have no right to be here today… censorship is a human rights violation.”?

Certainly, Bitcoin has taught me that with Square, and we’re doing everything in our power to do that.

This vision to stream money to people that you care about, in a way that the government cannot stop, I know that’s what Laura wants, and that’s what you all want where you are upset with Twitter.

The more people we have considering using Bitcoin for payments, for tips, for streaming money, the stronger this ecosystem is and the more we achieve our goal.

I’m going to copy that Lightning invoice, I’m going to go to my Muun wallet — created by an awesome team in Argentina — and I’m going to send that Bitcoin right now and it’s going to go and it’s gone.

So again we get back to this conflict about how are we going to build social media and communicate with each other without censorship and surveillance.

So when we talk about Bitcoin and Lightning, if we’re going to build it the right way, it has to be non-custodial?

We just want to take it to the next level and take it to 100 million more people who have non-custodial solutions.

But we wanted to make sure that we’re thinking about this in the correct way and that we’re reaching out to the right folks in the community to build it.

J: As a custodial exchange we need to push more companies like us to make sure that more people have non-custodial solutions.

J: Again, the conditions that created Bitcoin — everything that went into it from the proof-of-work model to the development model — no single points of failure — everything about it is why we’re into it.

At the end of the day the difference between Bitcoin and all the other coins is that with Bitcoin, we control the monetary policy, it’s not going to change, and with every single other coin, it’s up to some small group of people who are going to, best case, do their best.

A: A lot of people say Bitcoin is just for bad people.

What’s your response to that — that it’s just for criminals, the same sort of stuff that they said in the early ’90s about encryption.

Right, they said it’s going to be for bad people, we don’t want Americans to have privacy?

What is your response when you talk to regulators or government officials and when they say this is just too risky or it’s going to hurt people.

Securities and Exchange Commission] about Bitcoin and that never came up.

So it feels like there’s probably something a little bit deeper when you’re hearing any of these excuses and it’s just about trying to understand what that really is.

I think it’s just about losing power, effectively.

Recently there was a little bit of a controversy with some of the companies that are doing Bitcoin mining, and a software upgrade that’s going to bring new privacy to Bitcoin called Taproot, which is in the process of activating right now, which is very exciting, but one of these companies, they weren’t signaling for Taproot?

And then there was this huge community backlash and the company was actually forced to come out with a video message and say ‘sorry, we’re definitely going to signal.’ They basically bent the knee to the community?

A: There’s a lot of people who say Wall Street’s just going to control Bitcoin.

And the more companies, small, big, that try to demonstrate that and try to offset their corporateness by doing things that are more supportive of the community such as creating a Square Crypto-like thing, such as creating a [Cryptocurrency Open Patent Alliance] COPA-like thing to give up Bitcoin patents to protect the community, it becomes more and more resilient every single day.

And you all at Square just put out a paper with Ark that described how actually, Bitcoin mining might incentivize the adoption of renewable energy and it may actually help unlock renewable sources that are stranded or otherwise unused around the world.

Can you talk to us a little bit about why you have this belief or philosophy that Bitcoin mining is actually helpful for our species and our planet.

And I thought I had an agreement with some notable figures out there, and that seemed to change in a matter of weeks and now it’s in a weird kind of place.

But I believe fully that Bitcoin over time and today does incentivize more renewable energy.

And I think it does incentivize more awareness around how we’re getting that power and gives people more freedom to convert unused, wasted power into something that provides value for billions of people around the world.

government this year is decommissioning for political reasons more nuclear power than is necessary to essentially power the entire Bitcoin network.

We need to think carefully about energy and waste and the environment but there’s more than meets the eye here and I’d encourage all of you to dig in and learn more about Bitcoin mining.

And they’ve been building some hydro facilities there, they have this mighty river, and incredible natural resources, but the problem is when they build the dam it takes time to connect the transmission lines to the dam, so the project remains fairly inert for awhile, and it’s not that exciting of a development project for that reason.

But about a year and half ago, the people who run the park — which, by the way, is an incredible park that supports an area of five million people and some of the most amazing wildlife on the planet — they decided to start Bitcoin mining.

This is going to happen in so many countries that can start unlocking solar, wind, renewable, you name it.

They are going to start realizing that this can help bootstrap them into some energy independence.

Don’t you think that we’re going to benefit a little more than some other countries.

And the more accessible we can make it — just that realization that we finally have a currency that can be traded to any single point on the planet — is pretty incredible and what that enables going forward is mind-blowing.

A: This concept that Bitcoin is for everyone is I think what I want you to go home with.

Bitcoin is non-discriminatory, it cannot choose who uses it, and none of you can block our access or her access, or his access, it is something that is open for all of us, and it’s open source, and as a human rights activist I am grateful that companies like Square are supporting the open-source side of Bitcoin, are supporting non-custodial use, are supporting Lightning — these are things that I don’t think may have been possible before Bitcoin’s incentive structure.

It’s obviously a tricky political situation out there but I think we agree that Bitcoin is the way forward.

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